Do not be scared of using that charge button.

[generaltso]

...the Land Departure Warning ...

Cool gimmick! I want to have that in mine too...

Ha! Thanks, I fixed it. Though it certainly would be good to have a warning if we were departing with land!

 

[Claymore]

I'm late finding this thread and my 2 1/2 years of PHEV experience is purely observational rather than diagnostic , no pretty pictures.
I frequently do a 72 mile each way journey and have played around with the buttons a lot but I have no doubt whatsoever that my eventual practice of running the drive battery down until the ICE starts then engaging 'Charge' until range gets back to 7/8 mile then deselecting 'charge' until again 'flat' then repeating but managing the process so that I have around 5 miles EV remaining for the last 3/4 mile of town work gives me at least 5mpg better result than any other combination on that trip.

I should say that the majority of that trip is UK (congested) motorway, some of with a 50mph speed limit which suits my continued acceptance of the fact that 56mph is the optimal fuel efficient speed and therefore when the ICE is running that will present the car with the best opportunity for charging, particularly as the batteries will accept a better flow rate when discharged.

Even at 56 mph however it's obvious from the car's own display that even a modest up gradient absorbs enough of the ice's output to prevent charging the drive battery.

What did we do for entertainment before the PHEV?

JimB

 

[jaapv]

...
I think this can be achieved with the Save button.

You certainly can to an extent, but the level of charge does still drift down even with the Save button selected. I also inevitably end up forgetting to press Save from time to time and finding myself a long way from home with a flat battery and short of acceleration unless I select "Charge".

You won't be short of acceleration as in it's formally flat state the car will dip into its power reserve to sustain short power demands like accelerating.

 

[maby]

...
I think this can be achieved with the Save button.

You certainly can to an extent, but the level of charge does still drift down even with the Save button selected. I also inevitably end up forgetting to press Save from time to time and finding myself a long way from home with a flat battery and short of acceleration unless I select "Charge".

You won't be short of acceleration as in it's formally flat state the car will dip into its power reserve to sustain short power demands like accelerating.

Engine still revs far too high for my liking!

 

[Sumpy]

...
I think this can be achieved with the Save button.

You certainly can to an extent, but the level of charge does still drift down even with the Save button selected. I also inevitably end up forgetting to press Save from time to time and finding myself a long way from home with a flat battery and short of acceleration unless I select "Charge".

You won't be short of acceleration as in it's formally flat state the car will dip into its power reserve to sustain short power demands like accelerating.

What you say is correct jaapv, but only for a very short time. The long journey that I undertake has fast but undulating roads and I have found that if I let the car manage the drive battery at a single bar, then I run out of steam very quickly and on some of the steeper inclines the car doesn't accelerate as well as it normally does, by using the save button as I mentioned at the start of this thread it alleviates this problem (for me anyway) and gives a much more relaxed journey.
I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution to driving the PHEV, you just have to experiment and find what works best for you.

 

[maby]

...

What you say is correct jaapv, but only for a very short time. The long journey that I undertake has fast but undulating roads and I have found that if I let the car manage the drive battery at a single bar, then I run out of steam very quickly and on some of the steeper inclines the car doesn't accelerate as well as it normally does, by using the save button as I mentioned at the start of this thread it alleviates this problem (for me anyway) and gives a much more relaxed journey.
I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution to driving the PHEV, you just have to experiment and find what works best for you.

Look at jaapv's location in his signature - what he calls a hill, we describe as a speed-bump :lol:

 

[jaapv]

...
I think this can be achieved with the Save button.

You certainly can to an extent, but the level of charge does still drift down even with the Save button selected. I also inevitably end up forgetting to press Save from time to time and finding myself a long way from home with a flat battery and short of acceleration unless I select "Charge".

You won't be short of acceleration as in it's formally flat state the car will dip into its power reserve to sustain short power demands like accelerating.

What you say is correct jaapv, but only for a very short time. The long journey that I undertake has fast but undulating roads and I have found that if I let the car manage the drive battery at a single bar, then I run out of steam very quickly and on some of the steeper inclines the car doesn't accelerate as well as it normally does, by using the save button as I mentioned at the start of this thread it alleviates this problem (for me anyway) and gives a much more relaxed journey.
I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution to driving the PHEV, you just have to experiment and find what works best for you.

I hear you, but I only managed to do this once - driving on a hilly Autobahn @ 160 with a full load and a skibox on a very long uphill bit - and even then it only displayed a warning message and did not actually lose power, as I reduced my speed a bit.

 

[Trex]

I lurked in the Chevrolet Volt (or Opel Ampera-E to you Europeans) forums for a long time before coming up with this.

The Outlander PHEV operates almost identically to the Volt mk1, except it is an SUV & has a rear-mounted motor generator unit (forgoing the need for the generator motor to act as a 2nd drive motor unit). Chevrolet put in Normal, Sport & Mountain mode on the Volt (hold mode was later added in 2012+). Mountain mode was exactly what it stated; the Volt would use its ICE to charge up to 50% SoC which was meant to keep the car's battery buffer up so it can sustain safe speeds in significant grades.

In essence, Mountain mode is pretty much our Outlander PHEV's Charge mode. With the caveat the Volt by its programming does not allow the ICE charging beyond 50% SoC; I figured GM realized it isn't really all that efficient to be using gas -> generator -> electricity -> battery -> electricity -> motors -> wheels instead of parallel mode's gas -> gearbox -> wheels. Yes EV operation at stop-and-go is great, but as Trex & anko stated - the 4B11 would always be operating at its ideal rpms even in serial hybrid mode so you don't lose much in terms of efficiency. In a sense, you're forcing the PHEV to choose when to burn the gas - either a bit more on the freeway via extra load on the generator or doing so at a light, charging the battery directly.

In that sense, you can use Charge mode but you would likely be wasting more fuel than just letting the car do its own thing. Save mode would be beneficial for retaining SoC for EV duty at lower speeds & using the more efficient parallel drive for highway runs, but letting the car do its thing in city is something hybrids are really good at.

Hi Trades46,

Yes I also lurked on the Volt forum. I nearly bought the Holden Volt.

And yes I do not think the Volt does the Hybrid cycle of Charge up the drive battery, then shut down that bloody inefficient petrol engine and Ev like Mitsubishi . But that is their loss IMO. GM should try it or the owners should by using mountain mode to charge up the battery then Ev and see how their fuel consumption is.

......... but as Trex & anko stated - the 4B11 would always be operating at its ideal rpms even in serial hybrid mode so you don't lose much in terms of efficiency.

Now I do not think anywhere in this thread or elsewhere I have stated this. I will not speak for anko. I would be very surprised to learn that the Petrol motor on the PHEV is operating at its ideal revs or load at 60kph in Serial mode that I have to regularly travel at around town.

But you do not have to take my word for it. Mitsi have supplied a "pretty picture" illustrating where they think the PHEV is most efficient and my fuel consumption figures back them up so I believe them.



The graph to me says it all.

Charge that drive battery up in Parallel Mode and avoid Series mode with the proviso of not running around Saving a full drive battery has worked for me to save fuel over letting the car do its own thing.

You should try it.

Regards Trex.

 

[Trades46]

Most interesting Trex thank-you - so in a sense you want to maintain parallel mode as frequently as possible when operating on the gas engine is something I hadn't thought of.

Another thing I miscalculated in my original statement can be summarized by this gentlemen's video in his Prius Prime (a PHEV Prius) that is driven in frigid temperatures; cabin heating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdTsOgoHqs

In that sense, smart use of charge can be beneficial to MPG, but knowing when to use it and not waste the fuel's maximum potential is something I have to further research into.

 

[Trex]

Most interesting Trex thank-you - so in a sense you want to maintain parallel mode as frequently as possible when operating on the gas engine is something I hadn't thought of.

Another thing I miscalculated in my original statement can be summarized by this gentlemen's video in his Prius Prime (a PHEV Prius) that is driven in frigid temperatures; cabin heating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPdTsOgoHqs

In that sense, smart use of charge can be beneficial to MPG, but knowing when to use it and not waste the fuel's maximum potential is something I have to further research into.

My pleasure Trades46.

Yes parallel mode is where I always try to only run the petrol engine.

Prius Prime. I will admit I have never seen it before.

And I have owned a Prius before. Pulse and glide was the thing to do with Prius. Or Pulse and EV is what I did.

It will not be brought into Australia by the look of it. :evil: Same as the Plug in Prius before it ie not brought into Australia.

I have to admit that the Prius Prime looks pretty good IMO. Except for that big scoop around the lights. But could get used to that. :lol:

Stuff it, I will bring it in.



Regards Trex.

 

[Phil]

Trex, do you know what the axis on the torque graph represent, ie kmh. Mph, bhp ??

 

[anko]

Vertical in engine torque in Nm, horizontal is speed in km/h.

 

[Phil]

Vertical in engine torque in Nm, horizontal is speed in km/h.

Great, thanks

 

[HPM1111]

Hello all,

First post here, my name is Henrique from Portugal and I will be buying a PHEV in the next couple of months, most likely one of the first new shape (MY16).

I have read through a great deal of posts here and I before anything would like to express my sincere thanks for the amount of priceless knowledge shared.
I have a couple of queries I would like to ask your input:

Would there be in significant advantage in spending about 5k euros for a MY17 (with the EV priority button and automatic hand brake)?
My dailly route will be about 30km each (38miles), of those about 10km will be motorway the rest stop&go traffic (in the morning) and average 60km/h (evening).
I am really curious about the amount of control the driver can get of the operation hybrid system specially the use of CHARGE and SAVE.
I would assume that when in paralell mode running at a constant speed of say 110km/h pressing CHARGE would not increase RPM since the wheels are turning at a speed proportional to that of the engine. Therefore engaging CHARGE without extra throttle pressure would lead to a decrease of speed proportional to the amount of enery directed to battery charging, (maintaining the previous RPM) hence to maintain speed more throttle input would be required with the proportional increase in ICE RPM and decrease in MPG. Is this correct?
Many thanks,
Henrique

 

[greendwarf]

I would assume that when in paralell mode running at a constant speed of say 110km/h pressing CHARGE would not increase RPM since the wheels are turning at a speed proportional to that of the engine. Therefore engaging CHARGE without extra throttle pressure would lead to a decrease of speed proportional to the amount of enery directed to battery charging, (maintaining the previous RPM) hence to maintain speed more throttle input would be required with the proportional increase in ICE RPM and decrease in MPG. Is this correct?
Many thanks,
Henrique

In my experience once you are in parallel mode at that sort of speed, pressing Charge has little effect, (I am usually on Cruise Control) as all the power is going to the wheels with nothing left over for the battery. It will only be in an "overrun" situation (i.e. when going downhill) that you get some charging. So yes, the battery will get charged during high speed driving but very slowly.

 

[HPM1111]

Hi greendwarf, I believe that at that speed (from somewhere in this forum) ICE RPM in parallel mode is around 3200 RPM meaning there should be plenty extra power in the ICE?
My question though is whether the effect of CHARGE would be similar to that of turning AC on in a regular ICE only car.
It just occurred to me that since max power is reliant on both ICE+Rear eletric, the ammount of power available will drop significantly as soon as the ICE is using all its power driving the wheels and the rear eletric motor can no longer provide assist, which brings the question of what would the sustained max cruising speed be?

 

[anko]

In my experience once you are in parallel mode at that sort of speed, pressing Charge has little effect, (I am usually on Cruise Control) as all the power is going to the wheels with nothing left over for the battery. It will only be in an "overrun" situation (i.e. when going downhill) that you get some charging. So yes, the battery will get charged during high speed driving but very slowly.

You realise he wrote km/h, not MPH? If what you said was true, you would not be able to maintain such speed in the long run. At 110 km/h there is plenty of surplus power to recharge the battery and allow the ICE to be switched off about 1/4 of the time. It is quite different when climbing or towing ;-)

Keep in mind, in good conditions the car can do 170 km/h sustained. Which means depending on just ICE power. So, at 110 km/h there must be some reserves.

I would assume that when in paralell mode running at a constant speed of say 110km/h pressing CHARGE would not increase RPM since the wheels are turning at a speed proportional to that of the engine. Therefore engaging CHARGE without extra throttle pressure would lead to a decrease of speed proportional to the amount of enery directed to battery charging, (maintaining the previous RPM) hence to maintain speed more throttle input would be required with the proportional increase in ICE RPM and decrease in MPG. Is this correct?

Fortunately, this is not correct. The throttle input is automatically compensated by the ECUs when you hit Charge mode. Effectively, you dictate how fast you want to go, not how much power you are demanding.

Keep in mind, when driving around with a depleted battery without using Charge mode, the ICE will switch on and off all the time. So, power output of the ICE changes all the time. Yet, without changing throttle position, you will maintain the same speed.

 

[anko]

Hi greendwarf, I believe that at that speed (from somewhere in this forum) ICE RPM in parallel mode is around 3200 RPM meaning there should be plenty extra power in the ICE?

I believe it will be more like 2900 (4500 * 110 / 170). Taking into account the torque curve of our ICE (which is continuously climbing up to almost max RPM), the amount of power available at 110 km/h will be a little bit less less than 110/170 of maximum power. The extra power that would be available at higher speeds cannot be used because, as you say, RPMs are fixed. Unless you make the car drop out of parallel mode. But for this, you have to floor it, and then for sure it will not charge the battery.

The good thing is that with reduction of speed, the amount pf power needed for driving drops much faster than the amount of power available from the ICE. At 110 indeed there is surplus power available.

BTW: When driving conditions are demanding for a long period of time and your battery drops to 20%, the car WILL drop out of parallel mode, allowing more RPMs and higher ICE output. Until the SOC is back at (from the top of my head) 22.5 percent. I see this happening a lot during towing.

It just occurred to me that since max power is reliant on both ICE+Rear eletric, the ammount of power available will drop significantly as soon as the ICE is using all its power driving the wheels and the rear eletric motor can no longer provide assist, which brings the question of what would the sustained max cruising speed be?

As I wrote in my previous post, under good conditions, the car should be able to maintain top speed without depending on E-power. Accelerating towards top speed will be the hard part, if you have no battery left :mrgreen:

 

[HPM1111]

Anko thanks for clearing that up!
From what I gather the only improvement to MPG the driver can do is down to advance route planning both in average travel speed (motorway vs city) and geography (gradients)
CHARGE - antecipate hills/heavy loads to ensure SOC is enough so the EV motor(s) can help.
SAVE - Keep some SOC in the battery for later use of EV.
This is more or less what Mitsubishi writes in the owners manual/sales brochure

 

[anko]

From what I gather the only improvement to MPG the driver can do is ...

Not everybody agrees to this, but it is my opinion that it is better to run down SOC to below 50% (on the dash) before using Save or Charge mode. Above 50% SOC, the charge current is limited and so is the ICE in its effort to operate under the most efficient load.

To jog your mind, imagine SOC was at 100% and you would be running in Save or Charge mode. Charge current would be 0. Effectively, you would have transformed your hybrid into a normal ICE car, but one that is a few hundred pounds too heavy.

Of course there are exceptions. For example, when it is cold, it may be wise to start the ICE much sooner so you can use the heat of the ICE to heat the cabin.