Who is ready to adjust the Phev to get EV only mode?

[gwatpe]

Another potential solution to running pure ev at the touch of a button without cycling the ICE would be a set of fairly small and not terribly expensive (compared to another 12KW of batteries) super capacitors. A small set of these could produce a short burst for 10-12 seconds for overtaking, when our foot gets a little heavy off the line or changing lanes. They could recharge from the batteries in a few seconds after use and be ready for the next surge in no time.

A supercap that was a useful capacity needs the same amount of electronic balancing as a lithium battery and my research has shown that Lithium batteries perform equally as well at delivering power, as the battery is directly connected without a DC-DC converter to the power equipment. The energy storage of a capacitor is related to the square of the voltage on the terminals. The stored energy diminishes exponentially if withdrawn at a constant rate.

Considering space and weight and electrical complexity, it is better to add more battery capacity and to add further, I would make the petrol tank bigger before modifying the battery.

PS Trex has a PM

 

[greendwarf]

As brilliant as these cars are, having no way to restrict the ICE from starting when there is plenty of energy in the batteries is simply a flaw in design. An unfortunately serious one.

Annoying for some, clearly, but "serious" seems OTT

 

[Marksuk]

Annoying for some, clearly, but "serious" seems OTT

100% spot on

 

[gwatpe]

The operation of the ICE is a big part of some of my typical drives at the moment. Maybe as petrol becomes very expensive, the use of it by the ICE may become important to control. I would consider a sticky ECO button that controlled the petrol tank fuel level sensor reading, that made the PHEV think that there was no more fuel in the tank. I know from experience that this forces the PHEV to flatten the battery until it is depleted. Only then will the tank level not matter, and the PHEV will operate in series hybrid mode until all the petrol is gone and ICE stops, and then the battery is depleted till the car stops. [Better have a tow car handy] If you are lucky, you can refill the petrol tank a bit and the ICE will start and you will be able to continue on your way to fill it up.

PS my idea of a sticky button is one that remembers a user setting. This may even include cycling of the power button. For EV only mode it would be useful to have the petrol gauge accurate on power ON, so cycling the power button would reset EV mode OFF.

This could be an extension of my planned Sticky SAVE /CHARGE button and now ECO button mod.

sticky EV mode would cancel sticky SAVE and sticky CHARGE mode. and sticky SAVE and sticky CHARGE mode would cancel sticky EV mode.

These mods would not affect how the PHEV works as designed.

 

[anko]

The operation of the ICE is a big part of some of my typical drives at the moment. Maybe as petrol becomes very expensive, the use of it by the ICE may become important to control.

Don't know how it is down under, but "up here" we are way past this point But apart from that, many of us also bought the phev for environmental reasons. And also, unnecessary cold starts do not prologue the life of your engine. This should make sense, especially to you :lol:

I would consider a sticky ECO button that controlled the petrol tank fuel level sensor reading, that made the PHEV think that there was no more fuel in the tank. I know from experience that this forces the PHEV to flatten the battery until it is depleted. Only then will the tank level not matter, and the PHEV will operate in series hybrid mode until all the petrol is gone and ICE stops, and then the battery is depleted till the car stops.

Although this will prevent the use of save or charge mode to maintain or enhance SOC, it will not stop the car from starting the engine for heating purposes (believe it or not, I have noticed this myself). Also, I doubt it will stop the car from firing up the engine when you floor the pedal, as this would be against the whole idea of "not providing pure EV for safety reasons". But this, I have not tested myself.

Edit: you did not say "little fuel", you said "no fuel". Obviously, I have no experience with "no fuel", but it has to be seen if the car acts different when the fuel sensor says "no fuel" if it at all can or will.

Little bit OT: the other week I ran down my fuel tank almost to the end on the motorway (was able to add 44.82 lifter or so). At the 5 (?) liter mark, the car switched from parallel hybrid mode to series hybrid mode and it stayed in series hybrid mode until I filled up. Even though I was coasting at 100 km/h. From the instanteneous fuel consumption, I got the idea it was not recharging at that time. No idea what would be the point in doing so.

 

[outofyorkshire]

As brilliant as these cars are, having no way to restrict the ICE from starting when there is plenty of energy in the batteries is simply a flaw in design. An unfortunately serious one.

Annoying for some, clearly, but "serious" seems OTT

What he said

There are may things is life that are 'serious' but this 'ain't one :!:

Life is all about compromise and very few things in life are 'perfect '

If you buy a hybrid vehicle then you accept the level of compromise that comes with it :roll:
If you want to drive pure EV then buy a pure EV vehicle with all the compromises that brings :roll:

 

[anko]

If you buy a hybrid vehicle then you accept the level of compromise that comes with it :roll:

Whether you find it "serious" or "annoying" is a matter of taste, I guess. But please tell us, what is the compromise they made? What would have been sacrificed if they allowed us a choice on whether or not to use the engine for heating?

 

[gwatpe]

Edit: you did not say "little fuel", you said "no fuel". Obviously, I have no experience with "no fuel", but it has to be seen if the car acts different when the fuel sensor says "no fuel" if it at all can or will.

The first point. I remember that during the run the car out of energy test, The PHEV was driven in SAVE mode until this mode disabled. The battery was quite full. The car was driven at speeds from 60-80kph and included attempts to get the ICE to start with rapid acceleration. Battery power prevailed until the battery range dropped to --.--km. The ICE kicked in and series hybrid engaged for at least another 100km of driving. Finally after over an hour, the ICE conked out. Car continued a bit on the remaining battery. Did not have a backup car with me, so stopped and put some petrol in and ICE kicked in automatically at about 9L and started to recharge the battery. A total of 45L was added, so tank was fumes only. The PHEV would not engage the ICE when the total range was --.-- and there was battery available. Only when the battery range was --.-- and the total range was --.-- did the ICE kick in. I don't expect to test this again as any longer trips will involve carrying spare fuel.

BTW there is a big distance between the fuel sensor and the ECO button is in a difficult access place, so I will not be including an EV mode in the sticky SAVE solution.

 

[outofyorkshire]

If you buy a hybrid vehicle then you accept the level of compromise that comes with it :roll:

Whether you find it "serious" or "annoying" is a matter of taste, I guess. But please tell us, what is the compromise they made? What would have been sacrificed if they allowed us a choice on whether or not to use the engine for heating?

Am sure that during the significant amount of R&D that went into the PHEV that quite a number of compromises were made.
What they all were and why they were made I have no idea I am happy to leave that to the Mitsubishi boffins
Life is too short to worry about such trivia and I have more imprortant things to get wound up about :lol:

Despite all this I think it is unrealistic to expect such a ground breaking vehicle to be 'perfect' so early on in it's life.
As has been said on other posts we are all doing R&D for Mitsubishi to a certain extent.
You just pays your money and enjoy the car for what is is...not what it isn't ...

 

[anko]

Am sure that during the significant amount of R&D that went into the PHEV that quite a number of compromises were made.
What they all were and why they were made I have no idea I am happy to leave that to the Mitsubishi boffins
Life is too short to worry about such trivia and I have more imprortant things to get wound up about :lol:

Despite all this I think it is unrealistic to expect such a ground breaking vehicle to be 'perfect' so early on in it's life.

So, you have no backup for your statement that there lack of an EV only button or function is a compromise and not a design flaw?

Compromises are easily accepted. Design flaws are a bit tougher. I mean, it would be so nice if you were able to explain the rationale behind not heaving this feature, so I (and many others) could happily accept it. But as you can't, please allow us to dwell on it ...

 

[anko]

The first point.

Meaning?

.. and included attempts to get the ICE to start with rapid acceleration.

And what was the result of these attempts in that stage of your test?

The ICE kicked in and series hybrid engaged for at least another 100km of driving.

Consistent with my experience, although mine did not last 100 km. More like 70.

Finally after over an hour, the ICE conked out.

But did it because the fuel sensor said there was no more fuel? Or did it because there was no more fuel? If it was the latter, manipulating the fuel sensor will not do you any good (depending on your response to my second question).

 

[gwatpe]

.. and included attempts to get the ICE to start with rapid acceleration.

And what was the result of these attempts in that stage of your test?

"The battery prevailed"

The ICE kicked in and series hybrid engaged for at least another 100km of driving.

Consistent with my experience, although mine did not last 100 km. More like 70.

There appears to be wide variation in when the PHEV believes the tank is almost empty.

Finally after over an hour, the ICE conked out.

But did it because the fuel sensor said there was no more fuel? Or did it because there was no more fuel? If it was the latter, manipulating the fuel sensor will not do you any good (depending on your response to my second question).

There is no actual empty of all fuel indicator. The rapid flashing fuel warning with the REFUEL message and the total range --.-- are all you get. When there is battery remaining and indicated no fuel, the PHEV seems to use battery only. When the battery is indicated as empty and the fuel indicator says empty the PHEV tries as a final option to run the ICE with any unknown remaining fuel until the tank actually is empty, and not just indicated. There is a distinction. On previous petrol empty trials, there was still up to 9L of petrol remaining. Other forum members had suggested that the only way to really empty the petrol tank was to empty the battery first. My test had confirmed this. I had tried to get the ICE to run during over 40km of battery only operation. Maybe the speeds of the test were too low.

Maybe an expert from Mitsubishi should step in and answer once and for all with exactly what is supposed to happen.

 

[Trex]

Hi all,

Been away and noticed this discussion I started has resurfaced.

I know what I want and will say again ie a soft stop on the accelerator or a battery that can discharge at 120Kw for Ev only mode. That would be great.
If I cannot get this on this Phev model I will work around it. Pulling the fuel pump fuse definitely works as I said in another discussion and it would not be hard to make that switchable with a simple mod to have a ev only mode.

Just need to find if the error messages that are displayed are set permanently (to be read by Mitsubishi service) which I am working on.

Regards Trex.

Ps I am not recommending this mod for obvious reasons of safety and warranty. Hope that keeps me out of trouble.

 

[Trex]

Now I would like to ask a question of our cold climate members about the starting of the petrol motor for heating if you have the electric heater option.

From reading here in this forum I know that you have ways of keeping the petrol motor off ie preheating and lowering the climate control temp setting lower to keep max output of the electric heater ie 4.25Kw from being exceeded.

What I want to know is if you forget to lower temp setting and petrol motor starts (for heating) does lowering later stop it straight away? eg say climate control setting is on 22 degrees and you press start and the petrol motor starts for heating purposes does dropping the temp setting down to say 15 degrees stop the petrol motor straight away or once it has started it will not shut off for some time? Anko or someone ?

Regards Trex.

 

[anko]

You would expect us (me) to know for sure, but I am not totally 100% convinced. For 99% I would say, it runs for a little while longer, similar to what you see when you exceed 60 kW for a short moment.

OT: The heater itself will never consume more than 4.25 kW as it has two 1.7 kW heating elements and one heating 0.85 kW element, allowing it to consume 0.85, 1.7, 2.55, 3.4 or 4.25 kW.

 

[Titan]

From what I can remember, it doesn't stop straight away but keeps running for a while. How much longer, I'm not sure but long enough for me to think "that should've switched off by now". Sorry I can't be more empirical.

 

[anko]

... but long enough for me to think "that should've switched off by now".

That sounds spot on!

 

[chasingamy]

If I cannot get this on this Phev model I will work around it. Pulling the fuel pump fuse definitely works as I said in another discussion and it would not be hard to make that switchable with a simple mod to have a ev only mode.

Just need to find if the error messages that are displayed are set permanently (to be read by Mitsubishi service) which I am working on.

Regards Trex.

Perfect, well found Trex!
I'll be looking for a breach in the firewall to run a couple of wires through to the cabin, where I can switch the fuel pump next weekend.
As for the Mitsu boys finding my mischief in the error message codes, it should be possible to install this in such a way that I can remove the hardware without a trace, before servicing. If they find error codes and query me about them; I am the customer and will just ask them to fix the problem and not bother me with their issues.

 

[Trex]

You would expect us (me) to know for sure, but I am not totally 100% convinced. For 99% I would say, it runs for a little while longer, similar to what you see when you exceed 60 kW for a short moment.

OT: The heater itself will never consume more than 4.25 kW as it has two 1.7 kW heating elements and one heating 0.85 kW element, allowing it to consume 0.85, 1.7, 2.55, 3.4 or 4.25 kW.

I badly worded that when I said : keep max output of the electric heater ie 4.25Kw from being exceeded. I meant if the climate control system thought it needed more than the 4.25Kw to heat the cabin it switches on the petrol motor.

Can you find out if the petrol motor stays running for sure and roughly how long after dropping temp setting or is too warm there now it is spring to find out?

Regards Trex.

 

[Trex]

From what I can remember, it doesn't stop straight away but keeps running for a while. How much longer, I'm not sure but long enough for me to think "that should've switched off by now". Sorry I can't be more empirical.

Hi Titan,

Is it cold enough there to find out how long it runs if the petrol motor starts for heating and you drop the temp setting down on climate control.

Regards Trex.