Winter Tyres?

[Hypermiler]

Does anyone know why the Dezent RE 16" 6.5 J wheels on wheelbasealloys website wouldn't be suitable for our car - I was about to click pay for the same wheels for a higher price on another website. They are only £299 for 4 but they won't let me choose tyres as they say they aren't compatible...

And now I've found another website with different alloys and the same Vreds for £150 cheaper.. I really need to stop all this web trawling and just buy the darned things! :roll:
H

 

[davec]

Does anyone know why the Dezent RE 16" 6.5 J wheels on wheelbasealloys website wouldn't be suitable for our car - I was about to click pay for the same wheels for a higher price on another website. They are only £299 for 4 but they won't let me choose tyres as they say they aren't compatible...

And now I've found another website with different alloys and the same Vreds for £150 cheaper.. I really need to stop all this web trawling and just buy the darned things! :roll:
H

According the Dezent website's own configurator http://www.dezent-wheels.com/AlcarKonfigurator/index.php?lcs=v86byqxns&lng=en you should chose 7J 40ET rather than 6.5J

 

[cgwilkinson]

Hypermiler,

The standard Mitsubishi wheel offset is 38 but 40 should also fit OK with the standard 16" tyres.
The standard Mitsubishi 16" wheel size is 16 x 6.5 JJ.
This is also the same size as used on the Peugeot 4007 or C Crosser.

I think I was also looking at the Dezent 16" 6.5J wheels just before I found my second hand 16" Mitsubishi wheels.
From the research I carried out the difference between a 16 x 6.5 J and 16 x 6.5 JJ is not much - its a slightly different profile on the rim curve if I recall correctly.

I did quite a bit of online research and found several websites with good explanations on the differences and some useful online calculators for comparing wheel sizes and offsets.
If you are interested I will see if I can dig out the website links tomorrow and post them on the forum.

Best Regards,

Ged

 

[Bilbo59]

Offset calculator I used is at:

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

 

[Hypermiler]

Thanks guys.

I have actually now ordered some other wheels which are 6.5J (I was looking at the manual which said 6.5JJ and I have told the company I am buying from all the details of the car including what the manual said so I hope they will tell me if they won't fit!). I know others had put 7J on but given the manual said 6.5 that is what I ordered - I didn't know that JJ was something different (probably because I hadn't seen any 6.5JJ wheels for sale). Sigh, hope I've not got it wrong. I have found the whole topic a minefield and very difficult to make a decision. In fact I was thinking of putting a summary of my research with web links on, but perhaps I am not the best person to do this!

Do I need to ring the company I've ordered from or is the difference between J and JJ so slight that they will still fit - anyone know?

I had been quite pleased as have got 16" alloys with Vreds for under £650 delivered - was planning to share with everyone once they are on and working, rather than embarrassing myself with having bought the wrong wheels

Thanks in advance
H

 

[DrSlackBladder]

How's this for irony.......I started this thread several months ago before I even got my PHEV. Now I've had it for a couple of months, but it's not on winter tyres. Apparently my company, which had insisted on winter tyres for my previous BMWs, doesn't think it necessary for an AWD PHEV. So we go through the softness/hardness/stopping/cornering/temperature debate again. The PHEV on summer tyres has been ok so far, but we haven't yet this year had weather in North Wales that would cause anyone any real problems, although I would have peace of mind on a set of winters. Oh well, glad the thread is still going strong 25 pages later!

 

[Hypermiler]

Ok, now had an email to say my wheels have been despatched. Let's hope they fit!
H

 

[cgwilkinson]

Hypermiler,

OK I have found where I bookmarked the links I found most useful when researching the whole issue of tyre and wheel sizes when I started looking at buying a set of winter tyres/wheels for my PHEV.

The J & JJ designate the tyre bead profile/rim contour specification. The website I found that clearly explains what these designators refers to and also clearly explains almost everything else you could ever want to know about wheels and tyres is:

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_bible_pg4.html

Other useful links and really useful online wheel/tyre size calculators are:

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/blog/...ar-the-dt-alloy-wheel-fitment-guide-2/#offset
http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.ph...ameter2=18&wheelwidth2=7.5&offset2=38#content
http://www.alloywheels.com/Tyre_Calculator
http://www.4crawler.com/Diesel/Tires.shtml#Contour

Have a look at them I am sure you will find them useful.

As far as the actual difference between a J and a JJ several web posts seem to suggest that they are interchangeable e.g., http://www.talkaudio.co.uk/ipb/index.php/topic/261261-wheel-width/. However several of the websites above specify that JJ are often used on 4x4 vehicles

This website also seems to say that J is for passenger vehicles and JJ is for 4x4 or SUVs.

http://www.oponeo.co.uk/tyre-articl...file-and-cross-sectional-profile-of-the-wheel

This forum post http://www.freshalloy.com/archive/index.php/t-26434.html says:

Hypercarrots was partially correct. J and JJ (as well as the less-common B, K, and L) denote the shape and contour of the outermost part of the wheel lip that curves inward. To put it simply, it is the part of the wheel where the edge of the tire meets the edge of the rim.

It makes sense that no one bothers to know this information, since the lip has little or nothing to do with mounting of the tire. It does affect the mounting of wheel weights on an OEM wheel.

Satified with the answer? My boss from Japan told me specifically not to concern myself with these matters, as it is *very* unimportant.

These forum posts here http://www.piloteers.org/forums/65-tires-wheels/22902-16x6-5jj-vs-16x6-5j.html also suggest that you can ignore the difference between J and JJ -

J and JJ denote the design of the outer lip of the wheel. It is a technical spec used in the actual manufacturing process of the wheel, but completely useless when looking to buy wheels from a consumer perspective... so just ignore it. It helps to reduce confusion

These posts here http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/968894 say

However there is one small difference. The factory steel rim is 15x6J, and the alloys are 15x6JJ, the difference been the extra J (flange area differ by 0.5mm, J is the most common, jj is used for 4 wheel drives).

A forum post here though seems to suggest that it could be a safety issue http://www.nissansilvia.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=205026 saying

JJ is the only legal ones to use in Vic its called a "safety rim"

Again this post here http://www.mscw.com/info/tw.html also suggest you can ignore the difference between J and JJ

While there are many details about the wheel contour, according to Luis Haddock, most P-metric radials (typical tires, rather than TRX or other rarely-seen variants) will fit a wheel with a J, JJ, or JK wheel contour. (In other word, as long as you are using 13-17 inch tires, you can use J, JJ, or JK wheels. Bottom line - don't sweat it.)

So to summarise the answer is not 100% clear, there is some conflicting advice out there on the Internet but majority opinion is it should not matter whether you have J or JJ wheels. The Mitsubishi recommended ones are JJ. You need to make the final choice!

Regards,

Ged

 

[Hypermiler]

Ged
thanks so much for all that. I found the carbible page but it didn't definitively tell me whether J and JJ would be interchangeable - I found something which said that the difference in the flange height is 0.2mm between J and JJ - that sounds pretty negligible to me and am reassured that the wheels should fit. I also found something which said 4x4s tend to have JJ to help keep the tyres on in soft sand when tyres have been let down to low pressure - this isn't something I am planning to do. Like most phev owners, I might sometimes drive on a muddy field, but that's about it (and that is most likely when I've got my regular wheels on).

My main concern was to keep to the spec in the manual so that I wouldn't have any insurance issues.

Thanks again.

cheers
H

 

[jdsx]

Ok, now had an email to say my wheels have been despatched. Let's hope they fit!
H

I'd be interested to know how you get on Hypermiler! I spent many hours researching winter wheels/tyres in October/November, then finally lost the will to live! Actually I've been pleasantly surprised how well Phoebe has coped with the snow, and put off by tales of £20 per tyre to change over.... :shock: Thought I might just go for All Season tyres when the current tyres need replacing, but happy to consider alternatives :lol:

 

[MHS]

Ok, now had an email to say my wheels have been despatched. Let's hope they fit!
H

I'd be interested to know how you get on Hypermiler! I spent many hours researching winter wheels/tyres in October/November, then finally lost the will to live! Actually I've been pleasantly surprised how well Phoebe has coped with the snow, and put off by tales of £20 per tyre to change over.... :shock: Thought I might just go for All Season tyres when the current tyres need replacing, but happy to consider alternatives :lol:

All season tyres are like rose wine. You could drink it with every meal, but when having a lovely fillet steak, you would rather have a full bodied Merlot. Then in the summer with your smoked salmon, a lovely Sauvignon blanc would be perfect, but you're stuck with that rose.

Oh heck, maybe you just prefer a pint of Stella with everything, or would like to critisise my lack of an acute over the "e" of rose, because I can't find it on my iphone!!!!
Ps I think it's time to go to bed!!

 

[maby]

...

All season tyres are like rose wine. You could drink it with every meal, but when having a lovely fillet steak, you would rather have a full bodied Merlot. Then in the summer with your smoked salmon, a lovely Sauvignon blanc would be perfect, but you're stuck with that rose.

Oh heck, maybe you just prefer a pint of Stella with everything, or would like to critisise my lack of an acute over the "e" of rose, because I can't find it on my iphone!!!!
Ps I think it's time to go to bed!!

Running with that analogy, if you only eat one kind of food, you only need one kind of wine in your cellar. I trust that nobody is going to recommend that drivers on the Spanish costas should fit winter tyres? I can fully understand why someone in Scandinavia or Scotland would want them, but for us down south, we are in the position of eating smoked salmon almost all the time with an occasional fillet steak. And that's where the analogy breaks down - I can have several crates of white wine in the cellar with no red because I hardly ever eat steak - on the odd occasion that we do cook a really good steak, I can pop along to my local supermarket to buy a single bottle of decent red. You have to buy winter tyres by the crateful - an upfront investment of a thousand pounds plus the inconvenience of storing them till the next steak. Very difficult to justify for someone that eats salmon 330 days per year!

 

[Andy123]

And some of us haven't got room to store loads of different bottles of wine, so a nice rose (that avoids me having to quaff a super-heavy red with my summer salad) might be the best compromise (until someone starts a tyre-hotel somewhere in North Yorkshire).

 

[jdsx]

Ok, now had an email to say my wheels have been despatched. Let's hope they fit!
H

I'd be interested to know how you get on Hypermiler! I spent many hours researching winter wheels/tyres in October/November, then finally lost the will to live! Actually I've been pleasantly surprised how well Phoebe has coped with the snow, and put off by tales of £20 per tyre to change over.... :shock: Thought I might just go for All Season tyres when the current tyres need replacing, but happy to consider alternatives :lol:

All season tyres are like rose wine. You could drink it with every meal, but when having a lovely fillet steak, you would rather have a full bodied Merlot. Then in the summer with your smoked salmon, a lovely Sauvignon blanc would be perfect, but you're stuck with that rose.

Oh heck, maybe you just prefer a pint of Stella with everything, or would like to critisise my lack of an acute over the "e" of rose, because I can't find it on my iphone!!!!
Ps I think it's time to go to bed!!

Thanks MHS - interesting analogy :lol: . I think that's probably as far as this particular one can be stretched :lol: But if you want to find an acute 'e' on your iPhone, just press and hold down the 'e' as you type, and you should get various accent options to the right and you can slide your finger along!

Cheers!

 

[Hypermiler]

And some of us haven't got room to store loads of different bottles of wine, so a nice rose (that avoids me having to quaff a super-heavy red with my summer salad) might be the best compromise (until someone starts a tyre-hotel somewhere in North Yorkshire).

Ooh, there's an idea for a business that would use our big shed. As long as no one wants any tyre advice at the same time...
H

 

[MHS]

On Thursday on her way to work, my wife drove our phev very happily on our Wintersport 4D tyres, passing cars (including 4x4s) skidding all over the road. South Yorkshire roads were chaotic because of only 3" or so of the white stuff.

We have had winter tyres for over 15 years, and wouldn't be without them. The total cost works out just the same over the years of not having them.

 

[Bilbo59]

The spring is showing signs of getting established here in the north, a balmy 10deg c today and probably time to consider reverting back to the standard wheels and tyres. However, I really didn't like the Toyo's and never felt confident in them on wet roads. The winter tyres on the other hand have inspired confidence in all conditions.

My question is: has anyone run Vredesteins all year round and if so what was the result?

 

[BeeJay]

The spring is showing signs of getting established here in the north, a balmy 10deg c today and probably time to consider reverting back to the standard wheels and tyres. However, I really didn't like the Toyo's and never felt confident in them on wet roads. The winter tyres on the other hand have inspired confidence in all conditions.

My question is: has anyone run Vredesteins all year round and if so what was the result?

I used to run them all year round on my Range Rover for several years. They were fantastic and lasted a surprisingly long time (a good 20,000 miles plus). Would still be doing so today if I hadn't got the PHEV. The L322 RR was surprisingly light on tyre wear. They are AMAZING in the wet, I agree.

Didn't notice any major performance drop in the summer TBH, nor notice them wearing more.

I have just switched back last week from the Vredesteins to the Toyos as I am on a 3 year 45,000 mile lease, and swapping between the 2 I reckon I can probably make the 2 sets last 45,000 all together if I am lucky - I might as well get the usage out of the Toyos I have paid for! Otherwise I would have just left the Vreds on as my Dad still does on his Freelander as do some of our friends. The ones I just took off had 5,000 miles put on them and they look good as new.

However, if I ever lose even a little bit of confidence in the wet in the Toyos then the Vreds will be going back on and staying on and I will be spending the money on another set when they wear out.

Interestingly the new Michelin CrossClimate tyres are getting rave reviews, much better than the Goodyear Vector 4Seasons I used to run on my Peugeot 107. When my wife's car needs new tyres in Sep/Oct time I most likely will be fitting those and leaving them on her car all year round - she does so little mileage tyres perish with her before they wear out. They don't do them in PHEV sizes yet.

 

[Bilbo59]

Great information BeeJay, thank you.

I think I will leave them on for a while longer and monitor the wear as the temps increase.

Thanks again,

Bill

 

[KillerBob]

Just want to update the forum with feedback on the Nokian Hakkapeliitta 8 studded wintertires. I have them mounted (225/55/18) on my 2015 Phev, and they are magnificent.

In my previous SUVs (Lexus RX400h, Range Rover Sport, and Land Rover Discovery) I have had Pirellies, Vredesteins, and Michelins mounted, but these Nokians are by far the best. They have an amazing amount of grip, even on the icy roads we are driving here in Greenland at the moment. They are a bit noisy on pavement, but that's to be forgiven...