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Winter Tyres?
- Thread starter DrSlackBladder
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westdevon said:I've had 10 large SUVs over 30 years, 3 years each, and I've never replaced a tyre except for bad punctures.
8 to 10 k per year. It certainly wouldn't pay me to buy winter tyres.
I'm with you - I didn't know that they existed till I started visiting this forum!Ozukus
Well-known member
Besides the fact I would have nowhere practical to store them, I don't think it's that warranted down here in the South East of England.
Ozukus said:
Yeah, because it never goes below 7 degrees C in the South East of England. Rarely rains, never get any icy mornings either. Best not to bother with winter tyres.
Seriously though, as I have said earlier in this thread, if you know that in the lifetime you are keeping the car you will go through at least one set of tyres, then it is worth getting a set of winter tyres (I know you have storage problems). The difference in grip on cold and especially cold wet days is amazing.
Basically, if you know you are going to get though 2 sets during your ownership, you may as well get through two different sets that are best for the two seasons.
I have a set of winter tyres (Vredestein Wintrak 4 Xtremes) and the Toyos that came on the car. Not extra wheels, just tyres, and they stay stacked up in a corner of my garage. End of Oct I fit the winters to rims (costs £50 at local garage to swap them over) and then beginning of April I put the Toyos back on the rims.
Swapped them yesterday. Toyos have 14,082 miles on them now and 6mm of tread all round, Vredesteins that I have just put back on for the third winter have 10,818 miles on them and have between 6 and 7mm on them.
As it is, I am soon returning the PHEV off lease 10 months early as my Tesla Model X is being delivered at the end of Dec, so I'll hand it back with the Vredesteins on and I'll have a set of part worn Toyos to sell ;-)
I have run the Vredesteins all year round previously on Range Rovers, they were brilliant and really didn't wear any faster than other tyres, but in the cold and wet they are great.
Our company runs a large national fleet of company cars with plenty of miles covered. A few years ago as an experiment it supplied drivers with winter tyres fitted by the fleet tyre company with your originals stored by them and swapped back in the spring. Upon analysis of the data of accidents and indeed any incidents - it found no improvements at all in either!
Whilst it was quite prepared to pay for the process if worthwhile it found it a pointless expense and abandoned the scheme. Although it remains valuable and available to drivers in the far North and Scotland. It simply found people were more careful in bad weather and despite less grip were travelling at more controllable speeds to compensate.
Of course if an individual has the time and money to fit them its up to them and without question it ~may~ make life a bit easier ~if~ winter actually happens. But its not the panacea the marketing people at the tyres industry would like us to believe, not in the UK.
Whilst it was quite prepared to pay for the process if worthwhile it found it a pointless expense and abandoned the scheme. Although it remains valuable and available to drivers in the far North and Scotland. It simply found people were more careful in bad weather and despite less grip were travelling at more controllable speeds to compensate.
Of course if an individual has the time and money to fit them its up to them and without question it ~may~ make life a bit easier ~if~ winter actually happens. But its not the panacea the marketing people at the tyres industry would like us to believe, not in the UK.
greendwarf
Well-known member
But I couldn't have got off that French motorway without them last winter - worth every penny - and they mean you can drive when others abandon their cars. By the same argument anti-freeze is a waste of money in the South of England. :lol:
jaapv
Well-known member
A bit unfair on those users that drive their car abroad, be it on skiing holidays or otherwise. Even if drivers are free to slither about in the UK, driving on summer tyres in winter is illegal in -amongst others- Scandinavian countries, Germany, Austria and Switzerland an designated roads in Italy and France.BobEngineer said:
As many of our people pretty much drive for a living all year, I dont suppose many want to waste several days of precious holiday driving to and from snowy parts of Europe.. personally I enjoy letting some else drive for a change.. the pilot!
Like others, I have not had accidents or had to abandon a vehicle in a UK winter on regular tyres.. and we have get out to customers no matter what. There were times winter tyres would have made it easier, but for a few days not justified.
Like others, I have not had accidents or had to abandon a vehicle in a UK winter on regular tyres.. and we have get out to customers no matter what. There were times winter tyres would have made it easier, but for a few days not justified.
jaapv
Well-known member
I meet plenty of Britons on the slopes, and see British license plates in the car parks at the lifts, but you may be right, Brexit might have changed that as flights get paid in Pounds and holiday petrol in Euros.
The arguments will continue this year as I reckon, in the UK, it is largely down to personal preference.
Its interesting that the Consumer laws in the UK demand that a retailed product is fit for purpose. So if you bought your PHEV between November and March you could argue, if its fitted with 'summer' tyres that its not fit for purpose and your seller should fit more relevant tyres !!
Consequently since the UK is (on average) below 7C for about 5 months of the year it could that all cars should be fitted with 'all season' tyres.
Its interesting that the Consumer laws in the UK demand that a retailed product is fit for purpose. So if you bought your PHEV between November and March you could argue, if its fitted with 'summer' tyres that its not fit for purpose and your seller should fit more relevant tyres !!
Consequently since the UK is (on average) below 7C for about 5 months of the year it could that all cars should be fitted with 'all season' tyres.
NightPHEVer
Well-known member
Hey, it's nearly winter again! (well, ok maybe not quite but soon!) let's talk some more about winter tyres. I can't get enough of 'em myself. I am an absolute convert, and have had them on my Smart fortwo for the last ten years (Bridgestone Blizzacks, only in the winter of course) mainly because it's a rear wheel drive auto and otherwise just goes around in circles in the ice and snow on 'summer tyres'.
I've just bought a set of OEM PHEV 18inch alloys from ebay and am now in the process of deciding how much to spend on tyres. I like the look of Toyo Open Country WT's. Has anyone fitted any of these to a PHEV? Any good? The various online reviews of winter tyres seem to very much correspond to the cost. ie. the £150+ Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin seem to come out best. Toyo not far behind though. Although I don't know how useful these online reviews actually are, as different tyres work differently of different vehicles. I've got on just fine with the standard fit OEM Toyo R37 'summer tyres' though. I also had Toyo Proxes fitted to a BMW 520 nearly 20 years ago, and they were just fine too.
I'm seriously thinking of moving to the Scottish Highlands, so that could focus my attention on a real need for winter tyres. But even if I stay in Lincolnshire at least the lacquer on my 'summer' alloys won't be rotted by salt, and I'll be able to stop quicker when it's cold.
I've just bought a set of OEM PHEV 18inch alloys from ebay and am now in the process of deciding how much to spend on tyres. I like the look of Toyo Open Country WT's. Has anyone fitted any of these to a PHEV? Any good? The various online reviews of winter tyres seem to very much correspond to the cost. ie. the £150+ Bridgestone, Dunlop, Michelin seem to come out best. Toyo not far behind though. Although I don't know how useful these online reviews actually are, as different tyres work differently of different vehicles. I've got on just fine with the standard fit OEM Toyo R37 'summer tyres' though. I also had Toyo Proxes fitted to a BMW 520 nearly 20 years ago, and they were just fine too.
I'm seriously thinking of moving to the Scottish Highlands, so that could focus my attention on a real need for winter tyres. But even if I stay in Lincolnshire at least the lacquer on my 'summer' alloys won't be rotted by salt, and I'll be able to stop quicker when it's cold.
NightPHEVer
Well-known member
Well yes, you're not alone. I believe less than 5% of UK driver's use winter tyres. I guess it does depend on where you live, how bad last winter was where you live, and whether you got hopelessly stuck or not. The last two years winters where I live were indeed unusually mild and it didn't really snow at all. However as winter tyres are mostly intended and designed to work at less than +7oC it's not just about snow. They don't half work a lot better than summer tyres when it does snow though (especially going up or down steep hills) and therefore it's not surprising that it's snow rather than cold that it likely to be the real motivation to fit them.
My Smart car is completely transformed by winter tyres in snow. I have on several occasions been able to calmly and safely pass floundering RWD Mercs and BMWs, and even some FWD and 4WD cars up steep hills in snow. Admittedly this could be because; a) The people in control of them are not entirely competent in snow (even with 4WD!) or b) They have either under or over inflated bald summer tyres (I'm always surprised at how many 3 year old cars seem to have bald tyres. Presumably they just wait for the MoT to change them?). Although the bald tyres might well be a result of hopeless wheelspinning in snow and ice in the first place! I actually watched an Audi doing this a couple of years ago in a carpark - after about 5 minutes there was visible canvas showing where the tread used to be. That was a very expensive exit from a carpark. That doesn't happen with winter tyres, they just grip.
Things are definitely not helped when we get a really mild winter though, as some cars don't seem to react well to winter tyres above +7oC and can have curious handling problems. I'd say it certainly does depend on where you live in the UK and how much predictable cold weather you're likely to encounter, as the cost is considerable. Scottish Highlands though - a no brainer!
I'd still love to hear from anybody who's tried Toyo Open Country winter tyres - whether on a PHEV or not - though. That's assuming of course that they're actually available to buy in the UK and not a figment of the tyre suppliers imagination. I discovered most tyres listed on the popular websites to fit a Smart fortwo don't actually exist in the UK! Ended up with the OEM Bridgestone tyres in the end. I believe some people have had difficulty in getting hold of Toyo R37s for the PHEV in a hurry. I've now taken to doing tyre research online and then going to my local HiQ tyre shop to see what really is available, and at what price. I have a nearly new spare R37 just in case.
My Smart car is completely transformed by winter tyres in snow. I have on several occasions been able to calmly and safely pass floundering RWD Mercs and BMWs, and even some FWD and 4WD cars up steep hills in snow. Admittedly this could be because; a) The people in control of them are not entirely competent in snow (even with 4WD!) or b) They have either under or over inflated bald summer tyres (I'm always surprised at how many 3 year old cars seem to have bald tyres. Presumably they just wait for the MoT to change them?). Although the bald tyres might well be a result of hopeless wheelspinning in snow and ice in the first place! I actually watched an Audi doing this a couple of years ago in a carpark - after about 5 minutes there was visible canvas showing where the tread used to be. That was a very expensive exit from a carpark. That doesn't happen with winter tyres, they just grip.
Things are definitely not helped when we get a really mild winter though, as some cars don't seem to react well to winter tyres above +7oC and can have curious handling problems. I'd say it certainly does depend on where you live in the UK and how much predictable cold weather you're likely to encounter, as the cost is considerable. Scottish Highlands though - a no brainer!
I'd still love to hear from anybody who's tried Toyo Open Country winter tyres - whether on a PHEV or not - though. That's assuming of course that they're actually available to buy in the UK and not a figment of the tyre suppliers imagination. I discovered most tyres listed on the popular websites to fit a Smart fortwo don't actually exist in the UK! Ended up with the OEM Bridgestone tyres in the end. I believe some people have had difficulty in getting hold of Toyo R37s for the PHEV in a hurry. I've now taken to doing tyre research online and then going to my local HiQ tyre shop to see what really is available, and at what price. I have a nearly new spare R37 just in case.
NightPHEVer
Well-known member
I'm now getting quite excited at the prospect of 225/55 R18 Falken Eurowinter HS449 tyres. Seem to have good reviews on tyrereviews.co.uk. I now have four 2014 OEM used alloys which I'm going to get re-finished in something a bit tougher (powder coated silver I should think) than the standard, diamond polished finish they currently have. Althoug near perfect there are a few scratches on the lacquer so they won't last long in salt 'n' slush. Again, (or not as the case may be) If anybody has any experience of Falken Eurowinters on a PHEV, I'd be interested to hear from you.
On the subject of driving in the snow, this thread has just reminded me of the escapades of an idiot I worked with many years ago. He was a typical show-off and bought a very nice Triumph saloon (I don't remember the model) which had an automatic gearbox. This was in the days when auto boxes were a bit of a luxury and he loved to lord it over everyone else.
This was back when we still had winters and, a few months later, we had a decent fall of snow. We lived in a relatively rural area and there was no concept of ploughing the roads. Graham (that was his name) hopped into his Triumph and turned out of the company car park and into some soft and relatively deep snow. The car lost traction and stopped there with the wheels spinning. We watched in amazement as he got out, leaving it in gear, and pushed... The strategy certainly worked in the sense that the car regained traction and began moving - with him running along behind it, slipping and sliding all over the place. It managed to go quite a long way before a lamp post jumped out in front of it. I would have loved to be the insurance loss adjuster reading that one!
This was back when we still had winters and, a few months later, we had a decent fall of snow. We lived in a relatively rural area and there was no concept of ploughing the roads. Graham (that was his name) hopped into his Triumph and turned out of the company car park and into some soft and relatively deep snow. The car lost traction and stopped there with the wheels spinning. We watched in amazement as he got out, leaving it in gear, and pushed... The strategy certainly worked in the sense that the car regained traction and began moving - with him running along behind it, slipping and sliding all over the place. It managed to go quite a long way before a lamp post jumped out in front of it. I would have loved to be the insurance loss adjuster reading that one!
jaapv
Well-known member
You'll be surprised at the resistance against wintery conditions of the OEM rims. I run my winter tyres on original Mitsubishi alloys, and despite scratching they do not show signs of corrosion.NightPHEVer said:
The car is absolutely amazing on snow and winter tyres.
NightPHEVer
Well-known member
Do they use salt on the roads in the Netherlands? Our councils love their salt - any sign of anything that might possibly suggest a frost and out comes the Shi***r (Council Gritter). It's the salt that attacks the alloy - like a creeping germ underneath the laquer.
jaapv
Well-known member
Oh yes- they commision local farmers and anybody else who can provide a suitable vehicle to spread the stuff. As soon as they find an excuse to get out in force - like +3 and sleet predicted, they are out in force.
