Winter Tyres?

[DrSlackBladder]

Anyone with moderate or better driving ability shouldn't need winter tyres.

If you don't have the ability to drive in the snow in 2wd, 4wd probably won't help you that much though.

Sorry David, but that's a ridiculous statement!!! Of course there are clowns who ditch 4WDs in a little snow, and there are experienced sensible drivers who negotiate most UK snow and ice in 2WDs, but I experienced countless situations in the harsh winter of 2012/13 where having winter tyres on a 2WD consistently allowed me to get up the roads to my estate, whereas before having winter tyres I just could not get the traction. I make this comparison and conclusion using the same cars (BMW 520s over the last 6 years), and I don't expect my snow driving ability suddenly improved coincidentally at the same time that I first got winter tyres!!! In your defence, I assume you have never used winter tyres, so you cannot really make the comparison. I was also sceptical at first, thinking that the winter tyres wouldn't make much difference. But the difference really is staggering. And not to mention the stopping performance of the softer rubber at lower temperatures…….!

 

[maddogsetc]

For the doubters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuE00qdhLA

 

[david1972]

The point I was trying to make (which seems to have been lost somewhat) is that drivers with ability shouldn't need winter tyres on their phev

 

[maby]

The point I was trying to make (which seems to have been lost somewhat) is that drivers with ability shouldn't need winter tyres on their phev

I would agree with you at least in southern England. We go years scarcely seeing a flake of snow or hint of ice - I certainly don't want the expense and inconvenience of buying and storing winter tyres to prepare for those rare occasions!

 

[jaapv]

That I understand.
But my point is that that is not true. It is a simple matter of safety.In wintery conditions the summer tyres have less grip, less direction stability and less aquaplaning resistance.
You are driving about 2000 Kgs of vehicle, driver and odds and ends. To keep that on the road, be able to get uphill, and more importantly control downhill ( where 4 WD does not help) you need the best grip available. I.e. winter tyres. Make no mistake, they are also built for wet, for slippery by leaves etc, normal for our climate in autumn and winter.

Not every road is straight, flat and grippy....
And summer tyres harden up under 10 degrees.

Driving ability is fine, but there are laws of physics. Personally, I guess I have at least a hundred thousand Km on winter roads, sometimes with 30 or 40 cm snow on them, ice, 15 % slopes, etc., not to mention many more in our typical Dutch non-winter. I would not dream of driving summer tyres. And as I said, it is illegal in many areas in Europe.


You might care to read this article:

http://www.tyresafe.org/tyre-safety/winter-tyre-safety

And, more importantly, this video, which is about SUVs and wet roads:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/9715518/Winter-tyres-put-to-the-test.html

 

[david1972]

Ok, so which tyre manufacturer is it that you work for?.....Michelin, Continental.....don't be shy now :lol:

 

[maby]

That I understand.
But my point is that that is not true. It is a simple matter of safety.In wintery conditions the summer tyres have less grip, less direction stability and less aquaplaning resistance.
You are driving about 2000 Kgs of vehicle, driver and odds and ends. To keep that on the road, be able to get uphill, and more importantly control downhill ( where 4 WD does not help) you need the best grip available. I.e. winter tyres. Make no mistake, they are also built for wet, for slippery by leaves etc, normal for our climate in autumn and winter.

Not every road is straight, flat and grippy....
And summer tyres harden up under 10 degrees.

Driving ability is fine, but there are laws of physics. Personally, I guess I have at least a hundred thousand Km on winter roads, sometimes with 30 or 40 cm snow on them, ice, 15 % slopes, etc., not to mention many more in our typical Dutch non-winter. I would not dream of driving summer tyres. And as I said, it is illegal in many areas in Europe.


You might care to read this article:

http://www.tyresafe.org/tyre-safety/winter-tyre-safety

And, more importantly, this video, which is about SUVs and wet roads:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/9715518/Winter-tyres-put-to-the-test.html

There is always a balance to be struck. I could put caterpillar tracks on it and be absolutely secure in several feet of snow - but I'm not going to see several feet of snow. I live in the South East of England - last winter we only had frost on a handful of days, far less snow. In the unlikely event that I should wake up one morning this winter and find several inches of snow on the ground, I'll stay at home till it's melted. Where, geographically, do you draw the line? My wife is from Coruna in NW Spain - they have had snow on the ground once in her lifetime - should they fit winter tyres?

 

[Phever]

Live in the Peak District and will have winters on my phev as I did on the replaced range rover. Even on the wallet emptier, it was night and day in the 2 bad winters before the mild one we just had.

 

[jaapv]

Ok, so which tyre manufacturer is it that you work for?.....Michelin, Continental.....don't be shy now :lol:

You'll never forgive yourself if you kill somebody by driving on a wet road in winter on summer tyres.

 

[david1972]

Bit harsh that mate, don't you think

 

[jaapv]

Bit harsh that mate, don't you think

It probably is, so I do apologise. But it happened to a friend of mine. A pedestrian stepped out in the road. He could have stopped in time - if he had been driving on the right tyres.

 

[Rooksdown]

Hello all

I live in the UK, I have a month old PHEV and so far very good.

I consider myself to be a competent driver on ice and snow. Unfortunately (and however good I think I am), I haven't managed to change the laws of physics, very simply winter tyres offer more grip traction and control in low temperatures rain, snow and ice.

Irrespective of how good anyone thinks they are at driving in snow and ice. Nothing is a substitute for the mechanical grip of winter tyres. For anyone who hasn't driven on winter tyres in a 4x4 ( or 2 wheel drive ) you'll immediately notice a massive improvement in control, braking and traction.

Fundamentally it is a question of safety. Personally I think being able to brake in 25% less distance means I'm less likely to hit another pedestrian or a car, being able to turn a tighter radius at any give speed means I'm less likely to spin, and more traction means I wont get stuck.

How good are these tyres? Two years ago it properly snowed in the UK and I live in the countryside. I came across a BMW X3 on a hill and half stuck in a ditch. So I towed it out in reverse up the hill using my wife's 2 wheel drive Volvo V70 fitted with winter tyres. The X3 driver of course was a 'driver with ability', just the wrong tyres... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRa-Jax-EN0

I generally put Winter Tyres on in November and remove them at the end of Feb (depending on the weather). So I will be buying a set of winter tyres for the PHEV.

 

[greendwarf]

Well, it is a bit cheaper than that. I just get the wheels out of the garage and swop them around...
I normally run a car for 150.000 to 200.000 Kms. That is about two sets of winter tyres and three of summer-maybe a bit less with these large wheels. And with a bit of luck ( not this time, but a few times before ) I could keep the winter wheels for the next car. This time I could not keep them and sold them for 500 Euro

Did you buy a second set of same size alloys or steels with a smaller tyre for Winter and are both sets Hankook?

 

[jaapv]

Alloys the same size. Actually the factory ones.
For my summer tyres I use Continental Crosscontact UHP.
I had my dealer upgrade at delivery.

 

[blastpipe]

There isn't a strong enough case for winter tyres to be mandated in most of the UK but they are advisable in my opinion. If you've ever tried them in a harsh winter you will know how much better grip you have. However good the car there are only 4 small bits of rubber touching the road at any point in time.

As I travel up north in the winter months, as I keep a car usually for 3-5 years I but a set of winter tyres and fit them at the beginning of November and swap them back in April. This means, with my mileage, the all season tyres do not need replacing in my time with the car. The winter tyres take on that role.
I'm no boy racer..well not at my age...I prefer the security winter tyres give me and I'm happy to pay for that assurance. I realise that if I need to stop sharply I stand a better chance of stopping than the bloke behind..but then that's not my fault...I just hope I've avoided what was infront of me.

I don't work for or have any affiliation with a tyre company or supplier. But I like having winter tyres on in the winter

Not sure I will on the PHEV as it will be a company car..the private car will have them though

 

[greendwarf]

Alloys the same size. Actually the factory ones.
For my summer tyres I use Continental Crosscontact UHP.
I had my dealer upgrade at delivery.

Thanks, like most of the posters, I've never had winter tyres for here in the UK (although had some very interesting adventures on ordinary ones :shock . Living in London, I probably wouldn't bother, but I fancy trying out the 4WD (never had it before) and going by car skiing next February so have to get some but it all looks very complicated :?

 

[jayfdee]

Never felt the need to fit winter tyres,however I have been driving Land rovers for 20 years,and about once per year you get the chance to feel smug. I will review things this winter with my PHEV.Yes some sensible comments on this topic,but most UK drivers would never think of having winter tyres,sooner or later our government will feel obliged to pile more expense on UK drivers.
I have noticed that BMWs are particularly poor in bad conditions,possibly a combination of rear wheel drive and,well being a BMW driver.

 

[gobiman]

I spent many years being slightly cynical about winter tyres but having used them I'm a complete convert.
I drive 2 or 3 times a year to a chalet at 1800m in Austria. I'm fortunate in having an X5 as well as the PHEV with a set of winter wheels/tyres that I put on in November and take off around Easter. The grip/security/safety they offer is fantastic - for info Vredestein Wintrac are the brand. And they are a legal requirement in Bavaria and Austria.However good a driver you think you are, driving there and back without them is , in my view, substantially less safe.
My observations for UK drivers as follows -
1. Obviously the more rural and northerly you are, the more they make sense for UK use (or if,like me, you prefer driving to flying to the Alps).
2. They do work better at temperatures of 7 degrees and lower, not just freezing and below.
3. Plenty of commutes are early morning/sunrise which is often the coldest point of the day.
4. The incremental cost of a set of rims is not large and, as others have pointed out, you won't be wearing both sets of tyres at the same although clearly you will have tied up some cash in them. There is certainly a pretty active market on forums/ebay and I will be able to sell my X5 winter rims for pretty much what I paid for them.
5. If you have a garage/shed, storage is straightforward and I invested around £60 in a 3 ton trolley jack (and an ice hockey puck). Without trying to imitate an F1 team, it takes me 15 minutes a corner to change a wheel. I do it twice a year and it has the added advantage of enabling a close inspection of the tyre for damage and makes cleaning the wheels a doddle.
I'm still debating whether to try skiing in the PHEV (bought primarily for London). It should be good (petrol is much better than diesel at low temps) and I can plug into the chalet with an extension cable- which with the app gives a hugely beneficial pre-heat option. The same Vreds as on my X5 are just under £150 a corner.
I'm quite tempted - and have just bought some wispabars for the roof box.

 

[jaapv]

For the use you describe it is about the best vehicle to use. I matched against a Volvo Xc90 and a Landrover Discovery on a long twisty 15% average climb with over a foot of fresh snow.
The Outlander easily came in first. Reason:the low-speed torque of the electric motors. Don't forget to switch off the stability control.

 

[gobiman]

Interesting point on the snow abilities Jaapv.
A couple of questions -
1. What winter tyres have you put on and what size?
2. How does the PHEV go on the autobahn (potentially with a roof box)? Can it cruise at 120-140 km/h comfortably?

I am also curious as to mpg - I'm guessing an 80 mph (120 km/h) cruise with roofbox will give around 25-30 mpg once the electric had gone. That will still be 5-10 mpg ahead of my X5.