Winter Tyres?

[jaapv]

Hankook 255/55R18 I-Cept EVO on original wheels. It was a special offer by my dealer at delivery @ 1350 Euro all-in.

There is no problem at all cruising like that, except do run the car at Save all the time and on Charge when getting near the Alps. (not that it does much charging over 120, but you will have to drop speed for trucks, have downhills etc...)
Expect about 10 liters per 100KM, or a bit worse if you run heating, wipers, lights, A/C and seat heating extensively. It all depends on the weight of your right foot, of course.

As for comfort, I drove a Jaguar X-type 2.2 Diesel Estate before this, and found that a very comfortable car on long drives.
However, after 1300 Km, I step out of the PHEV considerably less tired.

One thing, though. Due to the relatively small tank you will need more stops for petrol. Not bad for safety at all, but to avoid running-out Angst it is advisable to carry a 5 or 10 L jerrycan.

 

[maby]

Never felt the need to fit winter tyres,however I have been driving Land rovers for 20 years,and about once per year you get the chance to feel smug. I will review things this winter with my PHEV.Yes some sensible comments on this topic,but most UK drivers would never think of having winter tyres,sooner or later our government will feel obliged to pile more expense on UK drivers.
I have noticed that BMWs are particularly poor in bad conditions,possibly a combination of rear wheel drive and,well being a BMW driver.

It's not just the expense though, is it? I take the point that if you keep the car a decent length of time, much of that expense cancels itself out - less wear on the summer tyres means that they last longer. As much as anything, it's the inconvenience - having to store one set of tyres all the time. Our garage is a rubbish dump, but I could clear enough space if I had to - how about all those people that live in flats? The trouble with making them mandatory is how do you phrase the law? It's not so critical in this country - we are geographically small and, with the possible exception of the Scilly Isles, you could just about make a case for winter tyres everywhere in the UK. How about countries like France? A set of rules that work for the Channel coast would be plain stupid for the Mediterranean coast! What dates do you set? We have years when you can walk the streets in a tee-shirt in March and others when you could go skiing!

 

[gobiman]

Jaapv - thanks for that
Continental rules are generally limited by region, season and whether it is "wintery" (sensibly) although they do vary. As I understand it, for example, Bavaria differs from North Germany. However if you are in an accident in snow (without winter tyres) you will have a major problem with both the police and insurance.

 

[jaapv]

That is correct, except for Bavaria, the German police will not pull you off the road for running on summer tyres. ( they will, though for using a non-specified tyre size). But if you have an accident in wintery conditions you will be done for irresponsible driving and your insurance company can refuse to pay up.

 

[jaapv]

Never felt the need to fit winter tyres,however I have been driving Land rovers for 20 years,and about once per year you get the chance to feel smug. I will review things this winter with my PHEV.Yes some sensible comments on this topic,but most UK drivers would never think of having winter tyres,sooner or later our government will feel obliged to pile more expense on UK drivers.
I have noticed that BMWs are particularly poor in bad conditions,possibly a combination of rear wheel drive and,well being a BMW driver.

It's not just the expense though, is it? I take the point that if you keep the car a decent length of time, much of that expense cancels itself out - less wear on the summer tyres means that they last longer. As much as anything, it's the inconvenience - having to store one set of tyres all the time. Our garage is a rubbish dump, but I could clear enough space if I had to - how about all those people that live in flats? The trouble with making them mandatory is how do you phrase the law? It's not so critical in this country - we are geographically small and, with the possible exception of the Scilly Isles, you could just about make a case for winter tyres everywhere in the UK. How about countries like France? A set of rules that work for the Channel coast would be plain stupid for the Mediterranean coast! What dates do you set? We have years when you can walk the streets in a tee-shirt in March and others when you could go skiing!

I most countries there is a time period( something like November-March) In France winter tyres and/or snowchains are mandatory on roads marked with a blue traffic sign with a chained wheel on it.

 

[maby]

Never felt the need to fit winter tyres,however I have been driving Land rovers for 20 years,and about once per year you get the chance to feel smug. I will review things this winter with my PHEV.Yes some sensible comments on this topic,but most UK drivers would never think of having winter tyres,sooner or later our government will feel obliged to pile more expense on UK drivers.
I have noticed that BMWs are particularly poor in bad conditions,possibly a combination of rear wheel drive and,well being a BMW driver.

It's not just the expense though, is it? I take the point that if you keep the car a decent length of time, much of that expense cancels itself out - less wear on the summer tyres means that they last longer. As much as anything, it's the inconvenience - having to store one set of tyres all the time. Our garage is a rubbish dump, but I could clear enough space if I had to - how about all those people that live in flats? The trouble with making them mandatory is how do you phrase the law? It's not so critical in this country - we are geographically small and, with the possible exception of the Scilly Isles, you could just about make a case for winter tyres everywhere in the UK. How about countries like France? A set of rules that work for the Channel coast would be plain stupid for the Mediterranean coast! What dates do you set? We have years when you can walk the streets in a tee-shirt in March and others when you could go skiing!

I most countries there is a time span ( something like November-March) In France winter tyres and/or snowchains are mandatory on roads marked with a blue traffic sign with a chained wheel on it.

I've never seen such signs in France - what areas are included? I've driven in Normandy in the middle of December and never been warned about tyre choice.

 

[jaapv]

You will find them on roads in the Alps, Pyrenees and other hilly areas. Also in the Southeast. Don't forget that Nice has a number of skiing resorts within a two/three-hours drive.

 

[Highspen]

Hello All,

This is not a rant, I promise but .......

My family is from Finland where snow=snow tyres.

I also ski in Austria twice a year and have normally kept a spare set of snow tyres on wheels for that purpose. If you look into any open garage door in Bavaria and Austria in Summer, you will see stacks of steel wheels fitted with M+S tyres for each car in the family, ready for winter. Some states in Germany and many other countries in Europe make it a legal requirement to change over to M+S tyres at a specified date.

I am an "enthusiastic" snow driver as I campaigned for a number of years in the BAMA rally series so I learned very early that there is a significant change to the performance, safety and handling characteristics of a car simply by changing to condition-appropriate tyres. In the real world of 19 year-old girls driving to work in the rush hour in their small Peugeots, tyres make the difference between abandoning their car (normally in a completely inappropriate place) and walking home in the wrong shoes, and continuing to make a complete safe journey.

Last winter, following a brief snow fall I spent an hour towing cars out of our local gym car park that had a slight rise to the main road - including a young mother with a car full of kids who was (mis)driving a fat-tyred BMW X5.

Snow tyres save lives, keep main routes clear and let life continue in a relatively normal way. If the Nordic and Alpine countries responded to snow and ice as countries like Britain do, all industry, health, education and commerce would grind to a complete halt between December and April.

I for one am now looking at 18" M+S alternatives and would gladly welcome advice on a economic and suitable set of steels and other drivers' experience on tyre selection.

I do hope that this subject runs for a while.

 

[Hypermiler]

Highspen - good points. Who would have thought that the quietly-made original post would prompt such discussion!

I am being converted, I have to say. We've never used winter tyres but a friend had told me how good they are on his Merc and we had said that we would get some for the next car (not planning to keep the other car long enough to warrant it). But having spent a lot on a car, it feels like a lot extra to spend - however, all the debate here is persuading me. Like Highspen, I would like some UK recommendations and costs if anyone has any. I am going to be in touch with my dealer soon so will try to remember to ask and get a Mitsu quote as a starting point which I will post on this thread.

Living in rural north Yorkshire, I think it would be worth it for us. We had a horrible experience in snow a couple of years ago - 2 small kids in the car, normal tyres on the Polo. And we weren't irresponsible in going out - it was 8 degrees C, no snow in sight (and mid April) when we left the house! I don't want to go through that again.

Now got to decide re tyres or actual wheels. We have no problem with storage, but not sure we'd be confident in changing all four wheels ourselves. Perhaps we could get a mobile tyre service to come and switch the wheels - not sure how much that would cost. Would we even be able to fit 4 wheels/tyres in the car to take them to a garage to be fitted, and could we lift the wheels - got no idea, as you can tell from my stupid questions!

Oh, and I need to persuade the OH that it is going to be worth the expense...

Thanks
H

 

[jaapv]

Wheels are not that heavy - the main problem lifting them is not smearing gunk over your clothes. And yes, they will fit in the boot - easily.
Many dealers and tyre centres offer storage deals if you buy the tyres with them. It works both ways - if you store them with their firm they are sure of a returning customer.

 

[maddogsetc]

I had a spare set of wheels with winters on for the Disco. Changed them over myself once but due to air suspension and the crappy oem jack never did it again. Found it much easier to load the 4 wheels and tyres into the trailer, hitch it up and take the whole lot to a local tyre depot to swap them over. Cost me £60-80 twice a year.

It will be interesting to see what sort of prices the dealers come up with. On the face of it, it would seem cheaper to get the tyres from a tyre depot and buy the wheels separately but ISTR that BMW and Merc dealers were offering some competitive package deals when we last had a bad winter. Maybe Mitsi will do the same :?:

Does anyone know for certain if the diesel Outlander's wheels will fit the PHEV?

 

[jaapv]

As far as I'm aware they will, but take care that the total diameter of wheel+tyre must remain the same; the stability control relies on it for its calculations.

 

[gobiman]

If you are doing it yourself my advice would be invest in a trolley jack( Costco for mine - 3 tonne limit around £65), a good extending wrench/ torque wrench (found mine in Lidl for around £15) and an ice hockey puck (under a fiver on ebay). The puck sits on top of the jack and helps avoid damage to bodywork by the jacking points. If you want to be super safe get a pair of axle stands but I haven't bothered and only really necessary if you are working under the car.
The other really useful bits of kit are the guides to screw into the nut holes which makes it much easier to put the wheels on - "wheel stud alignment guides" I think is the term - a few quid very well spent. You can also get a "wheel dolly" if you struggle with the weight. In man maths terms, if you are doing it more than a couple of times, you will get your money back on the kit.
The other consideration is that you need a level piece of road/driveway - this is not a recommended public road activity.
I would not use the OEM Jack - they are generally very cheap and emergency use only.
There is a bit of physicality involved - I would say if you can lift a 20 kg suitcase for your hols, you can manage to do it yourself.
If you have a friendly local garage, they will typically do it for £10-15 a corner for cash but you need to put a blanket down in the back and take them down. They will fit.
I take about an hour all in (15 minutes a corner) going at a non F1 pace - and it is surprisingly rewarding as a "man" activity.

 

[jaapv]

On the other hand, there have been a number of vibration complaints threads on the Dutch forum, so it might be a good idea to have them balanced routinely at changeover anyway.

 

[user 258]

Hi,
I got a quote for a Mitubishi wheel to keep as a spare and was quoted £648 inc VAT but excluding tyre. I could have probably asked for discount, especially if buying four, but that is still a rather high starting point.
Kind regards,
Mark

 

[maby]

Hi,
I got a quote for a Mitubishi wheel to keep as a spare and was quoted £648 inc VAT but excluding tyre. I could have probably asked for discount, especially if buying four, but that is still a rather high starting point.
Kind regards,
Mark

OUCH!!!

 

[jaapv]

Hi,
I got a quote for a Mitubishi wheel to keep as a spare and was quoted £648 inc VAT but excluding tyre. I could have probably asked for discount, especially if buying four, but that is still a rather high starting point.
Kind regards,
Mark

I would say that, considering I paid about 1000£ including A-brand tyres for four, this price is slightly inflated.

 

[maddogsetc]

I would say that, considering I paid about 1000£ including A-brand tyres for four, this price is slightly inflated.

What wheels did you get for that price Jaap?

 

[maby]

I would say that, considering I paid about 1000£ including A-brand tyres for four, this price is slightly inflated.

What wheels did you get for that price Jaap?

I have to say that a quick Bing search seems to turn up plenty of internet retailers offering a set of four Outlander compatible alloys for around £400...

 

[user 258]

I would say that, considering I paid about 1000£ including A-brand tyres for four, this price is slightly inflated.

What wheels did you get for that price Jaap?

I have to say that a quick Bing search seems to turn up plenty of internet retailers offering a set of four Outlander compatible alloys for around £400...

Hi,
How would third party wheels affect insurance (in UK)?
Kind regards,
Mark