Outlander PHEV Sub-Zero Operation Question

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I am a recent owner of a new 2023 Outlander PHEV, purchased in October 2023. I have read much about the possibility of being stranded in Sub-zero weather conditions where the main battery shuts down and will not start the engine. I am looking for advice. I live in Iowa and we are expecting sub-zero temps starting this Saturday night ( 1-13-2024) for several days. Sunday, the high temperature is expected to be in the -8° F during the day and -17°F at night this weekend and gradually warm up throughout the week. While my car is in an attached garage, it is not heated. I don't expect it to get below zero while garaged. However, I will go to work on Monday and the car will be outside for the day which has highs predicated at -6°F.

Are there any precautions I need to take to make sure it will start after sitting in temperatures of less than -6° F during the day? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thank you.
Jim Petro
Last year I was in Calgary at -40C. Car sat overnight outside. Sat for at least. 15 hours. Started okay. 2020PHEV . Keep in mind motor is only 2.0 litres and starter is driven by 300 volt traction battery. Keep traction battery at half charge or more and should be no problem.
IMHO
 
Last year I was in Calgary at -40C. Car sat overnight outside. Sat for at least. 15 hours. Started okay. 2020PHEV . Keep in mind motor is only 2.0 litres and starter is driven by 300 volt traction battery. Keep traction battery at half charge or more and should be no problem.
IMHO
2020 is a different vehicle. The problem is with 2023 and 2024.

My question is, if it's super cold out and you have your car plugged in, is that enough to keep it "alive" even in the cold? I am not 100% certain of the answer. The engineer from Mitsu some people have mentioned (His name is Honda) said to leave it plugged in. I only own a 2018 so my car has the dedicated battery heater. Would be nice to know from the 2023+ owners if you have your car plugged in in sub -30 temps does it still start vs. leaving it unplugged.
Judging by facebook posts and complaints you cant give define answer. Some ppl report vehicle is derivable in -30 after been plugged in overnight some say they cant even initiate the charging.
We have to obtain reliable info cause the people reporting are all kind of folks with different knowledge and backgrounds, reporting all kind of nonsense.
For example one guy was saying it is all fine he even preheat the vehicle and the engine is not even kinking-in in -20C. Finally after some "interrogation" comes out he is keeping the vehicle in a unheated garage.
 
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It is a bit of a catch 22. From my experience the only time the battery temperature increase is if you charge or discharge it. So I think for some folks that have reported not having issues they have started charging when the battery is still warm enough to accept charge. Then with the added charging energy been able to keep the battery warm. Problem is if your battery is at 100% and then sits for a long time it will once again drop below acceptable limits. Putting a large load on the battery will warm it up. I've seen it approach the upper limit while driving at highway speeds (EV mode) in cool weather.
 
Thought this might be of interest to the many owners experiencing cold weather angst.

Disclaimer, no way associated with Mitsubishi or reviewer quoted herein.

Quote from review: cold weather battery charging/ operations.
Read full report here:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/drivin...wcm/49af727a-0036-406e-8e08-6de700fea67d/amp/
Quote
In extreme cold, drivers should leave their Outlander PHEV connected to a charger where possible, even if its battery is full. According to chief engineer Kentaro Honda, this is like having a block heater for the battery. While plugged in, the battery pack will slowly and slightly charge and discharge itself to keep warm.


Forget to plug in on a frigid day, and you can expect a “Low Power Warning” in the vehicle’s instrument cluster, indicating reduced power output available from the traction battery. In this situation, the gasoline engine does more of the work of driving the car. The condition resolves after a few minutes of driving, once the battery has warmed up a little.


Mitsubishi has equipped the new Outlander PHEV with a heat-....
Unquote
 
So...let's talk cold...

I live in Northern BC on the Alaska Highway where the average temperature is below freezing for 4+ months a year, and we seldom have a year where we dont see temperatures below -40•C, often with stretches where the daily highs do not exceed -30(all temp references here are in Celcius). (when we talk about temperatures in the winter here we dispense with saying "minus" because it's a given. I am roughly 750 km from the nearest Mitsubishi dealer, the same distance as I am from my Subaru and Mazda dealers (we have a 2013 Forester and a 2007 Mazda Speed3), and hundreds of km from other dealers.

I shopped just about every Mitsu dealer in Canada (except Quebec - my French c'est terrible) before buying my 2023 Outlander PHEV from a dealer in Ottawa. Because of where I live I included questions about EV performance, block heater, etc. in every contact with sales reps. I received assurances that I "should have no problem" and n'ere a mention of the likes of which I've encountered or seen on this forum. Neither does the vehicle's documentation raise the issue in other than very casual and vague terms. Echoing comments elsewhere, on the subject of a block heater, I was variously told that it wasn't needed and in 2 instances that no such thing was available for the PHEV. Similarly it's not in the options list (also noted elsewhere). after some additional research, I took it to my nearest dealer who agreed that it was indeed a good idea to install a block heater, and did.

I took delivery of the Mitsu in early summer and was very impressed with just about everything about it. Then came the cold in mid November, late this year and more moderate than usual because of El Nino off the west coast. At -14 I began to get "Reduced Power" warnings. At -23ish I was introduced to the "battery is cold - may not restart..." and "battery too cold to start -plug in and wait" warnings. This past week at -30 I was instructed to "pull over safely, plug in..." and wait for things to warm up in the spring (I'm making the part about spring up-but not the pull over bit). After three days of -30's the latter warning appeared at any attempt to start.

I had naively thought that in the event there was no flow from the HV battery, that the ICE would kick in and I would still have mobility...uh, uh. I had a $55k brick in my driveway.

So, what to do? Well, the logical thing seemed to be to call Mitsubishi roadside assistance and have the vehicle moved to a warmup bay at a local repair facility. Not so easy...I was told they could send assistance to jump start the vehicle (keep in mind here that this was the same vehicle that told me to park it safely and wait for the season to change). I indicated that towing the vehicle for a warmup was my preference and I was told that that was indeed possible, but that it could only be towed to my "local dealer." I pointed out that, as noted above, that dealer was 750km away and it seemed more than a little extreme (I actually think I said "damned stupid") to do what was offered for a warmup. I then recieved an "oh BTW, that is outside our tow range so you'd have to pay for the additional distance beyond our limit." (roughly $1500cdn to me.)

Time for option 2...so I hopped into my 17 year old Mazda (market value < $1000 on a good day) that started first crank, and scooted around town to call in favours that I hadn't earned yet to get the Outlander (which my wife has started to refer to as "the Outlandish") towed and warmed, which happened. After warming, the machine threw a trouble light which once cleared has not returned. I drove the vehicle around a bit and returned it to my driveway and plugged in the charger and block heater, where it sits at present. Fortunately the weather has warmed and it will only drop to -27 tonight and rise to -21 tomorrow. We'll see what the day brings.

Nonetheless, this is not a tenable situation. I drive the Alaska Highway to the nearest large population centre a number of times a year for specialised medical treatment, to get supplies not available in my home community, to attend meetings for groups to which I belong, etc. Between where I live and the first such center is roughly 350km with stretches of road with no source of assistance for as long as a third of that, and often light traffic. So, I wonder, what might be the consequences of setting out on a drive at say -15 or so and having the temperature drop as it can do here, prompting my Mitsu to direct me to park it by the side of the road in one of those stretches in conditions sufficiently cold to cause it to do so, or as I am told could happen, stopping on its own? We here live with the cold and know that to disrespect it can result in stern correction.

Aside from the worst case scenario, is it unreasonable to expect that a vehicle sold for use in Canada should be able to operate reliably in conditions that constitute the norm for large parts of the country, including more southerly ones sharing similar climatic conditions? I think not. I am equally puzzled at the fact that vis a vis the cold start issue that Mitsubishi elected to remove HV battery pre-heating from 2023 (and 2022?) Outlander PHEV's. Was it to improve EV range numbers for marketing purposes, to cut production costs? If so I'd gladly sacrifice some range to ensure a reliable, safe start...after all what good is increased range if I cant get out of my driveway? If for cost, how much could that be in that the feature was incorporated in previous years (as far as I can tell) and it is a standard feature across the industry, specifically with KIA PHEV's for example.

It also astounds me that the level of information on the whole subject of cold climate use is so poor - not clearly documented - not known to sales and service reps and not available to us.

If you have stuck with my meandering long winded post to this point you have sensed my consternation over the issue and its various elements. Does what we are discussing constitute false advertising, negligence, or something other? Those in this forum, otherwise seemingly well informed, appear to have been caught off guard and I would expect have exercised reasonable due diligence before laying out the cash to make such a significant purchase..."buyer beware"...I think we have.

I appreciate the opportunity to address the group and hope what I've expressed provides at least something useful.
 
You asked the dealers the right questions, but who believes the dealers, particularly in regard to electric vehicles ?

Hindsight is wonderful, if only you'd looked at the sub-zero weather posts on here before you bought the PHEV :-<
 
The deal is people don't expect an vehicle that will be disabled in harsh winter conditions to be sold without any warnings especially in regions where those type of conditions are frequent.
People don't expect that and don't know for what issues they have to research before buying.

The ludicrous government don't allow some cheap vehicles to be sold in Canada under pretext that are not meeting safety standards but this 2023-2024 cold abomination is sold without even an warning that would be disabled at -30.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2018 but 2023-2024 bigger, luxurious, better battery range... thanks but no thanks!
 
I have seen elsewhere that Mitsubishi claims that leaving it plugged in will warm the battery sufficiently by running a charge/discharge cycle to generate heat. Are you leaving it plugged into a 220 V charger when you have these problems?
 
I have seen elsewhere that Mitsubishi claims that leaving it plugged in will warm the battery sufficiently by running a charge/discharge cycle to generate heat. Are you leaving it plugged into a 220 V charger when you have these problems?
Well good luck finding outlet wherever you go! People go to work and so on without option to plug.
Some report the vehicle bricked even when plugged but who knows actually when they plugged, for how long, etc.
 
I'm not defending the Dealers but I think the salespeople didn't know about severe cold issues either. It appears like the car was expected to have a battery heater (as it was listed in the specs), but it actually doesn't. Only Mitsubishi would know what internal communications were made to the dealers regarding this (or not made), and when. And why exactly they deleted the battery heater. I can only guess that it was to save costs, or that they thought they didn't need it with the upgraded design. But why it was listed then, in the specs, is a mystery. Maybe it WAS planned and those were old specs that someone didn't update, or maybe it was an honest mistake, or maybe not.

We do know the battery heater was dropped in the specs for the 2024 model. It is no longer listed.

With at least one lawsuit in Quebec and potentially another one in the USA, this information may come to light eventually.
 
I have seen elsewhere that Mitsubishi claims that leaving it plugged in will warm the battery sufficiently by running a charge/discharge cycle to generate heat. Are you leaving it plugged into a 220 V charger when you have these problems?
yep-but beyond -25 (-33 this morning) it seems only to switch the warning messages from "too cold to start" to "find a safe place to park and plug in"...the manual refers to such things happening in "extreme cold" (no specifics) but one person's extreme is another's daily fare.

BTW-just yesterday evening as the temperature began dropping from -25 to -33 I thought I'd monitor the charge/discharge cycle using the remote app. The vehicle was parked showing a (visible) charge level of about 70%. The app reported a 1.5 hour time to reach a full charge. 2 hours later it was still charging and at 80ish% 2 hours after that, closer to full but not there yet. Bedtime...

I had to get up to walk our sick dog at about 3 a.m. and checked the app which registered a full charge - what now? I wondered. Back to bed. Rising at 7:30 I checked again only to have the app indicate that the battery had seemingly discharged and was sitting at roughly 70-75% again, with a 2.5 hour recharge time...I wonder where all those electrons went, but there does seem to be something going on. 4 hours later the indicator has climbed back to 90% still indicating a 2.5 hour completion time. (current temp. is -28). So, when the discharge that seems to be happening, happens do I get a rebate from BC Hydro for the juice I've drawn down?

I've not attempted a start since so much time has been given the vehicle in the past few days and my good wife has suggested that I "get a life that doesn't revolve around the "Outlandish""

Life on the bleeding edge of technology can be fun...but sometimes it isn't.
 
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I'm not defending the Dealers but I think the salespeople didn't know about severe cold issues either. It appears like the car was expected to have a battery heater (as it was listed in the specs), but it actually doesn't. Only Mitsubishi would know what internal communications were made to the dealers regarding this (or not made), and when. And why exactly they deleted the battery heater. I can only guess that it was to save costs, or that they thought they didn't need it with the upgraded design. But why it was listed then, in the specs, is a mystery. Maybe it WAS planned and those were old specs that someone didn't update, or maybe it was an honest mistake, or maybe not.

We do know the battery heater was dropped in the specs for the 2024 model. It is no longer listed.

With at least one lawsuit in Quebec and potentially another one in the USA, this information may come to light eventually.
I agree about dealers and reps not seeming to be aware. When I had my block heater installed at a dealer in northern Alberta where weather conditions match mine, I asked the service manager about the cold start issues related to the battery and they didn't know about the deletion of the heater until having a chat with a savvy service tech.

That said, the absence of disclosure by somebody in the chain of command is more than an oversight, evidence being that there are warnings built into the system acknowledging what may/is happen(ing).

I want to look into the lawsuit you mention - any details? I don't need another project to chase to get a fix but I also don't need a vehicle that can't get me from A to B safely.
 
The deal is people don't expect an vehicle that will be disabled in harsh winter conditions to be sold without any warnings especially in regions where those type of conditions are frequent.
People don't expect that and don't know for what issues they have to research before buying.

The ludicrous government don't allow some cheap vehicles to be sold in Canada under pretext that are not meeting safety standards but this 2023-2024 cold abomination is sold without even an warning that would be disabled at -30.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 2018 but 2023-2024 bigger, luxurious, better battery range... thanks but no thanks!
Agreed - I didn't ask whether the brakes, steering or headlights work when it's cold either. Warming circuitry is standard in the industry, just like a steering wheel and tires.
 
I thought I'd done pretty good due diligence and scanning the web on issues related to the 2023 PHEV in the spring of 2023 when there seemed to be short supply of the units didn't show much.

As to believing dealer reps, I'm far from niave, but after talking to 10's of them and getting responses that were aligned, I didn't see an issue.

Hindsight...ah yes
 
BTW-just yesterday evening as the temperature began dropping from -25 to -33 I thought I'd monitor the charge/discharge cycle using the remote app. The vehicle was parked showing a (visible) charge level of about 70%. The app reported a 1.5 hour time to reach a full charge. 2 hours later it was still charging and at 80ish% 2 hours after that, closer to full but not there yet. Bedtime...

I had to get up to walk our sick dog at about 3 a.m. and checked the app which registered a full charge - what now? I wondered. Back to bed. Rising at 7:30 I checked again only to have the app indicate that the battery had seemingly discharged and was sitting at roughly 70-75% again, with a 2.5 hour recharge time...I wonder where all those electrons went, but there does seem to be something going on. 4 hours later the indicator has climbed back to 90% still indicating a 2.5 hour completion time. (current temp. is -28). So, when the discharge that seems to be happening, happens do I get a rebate from BC Hydro for the juice I've drawn down?

I think the car is using the battery to somehow keep it warm. I have no idea how this is done when there's no heater for the battery—perhaps using the car's heater?
 
I see another thread from earlier this year

"Drive battery Thermal Management"​

that brings up the drive battery cooler, something raised in a discussion off site as well.

Does this have any contribution to make to the cold battery discussion (I note that at least 1 member of this forum was quite involved in the offsite discussion).
 
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